JB Cup

Other tournament discussions

Postby Nev_Star » Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:16 pm

Kev, I think Hank was saying that the set up now is geared towards high skilled players as chosen by each captain, if you wanted to do another ryder style tourney greared towards the "other" players he would help.
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Postby Peter » Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:35 pm

Hank wrote;

I would like any good BC player who has worked hard to be able to play so I open to suggestion to how to add them without incident if they don't 'belong' to one of the existing 'clubs'.


How about a "draft" where a player who wishes to play, (and qualifies based on DG ratings), declares their availability, and the team that finished last, gets first pick at the pool of players available?

That way, the club affiliation becomes irrelevant and the weaker teams get first crack at eligible players. This won't necessarily mean that eligible players play,(the team captains may decide that their current roster is not in need of the players available), but it will allow for injured players, or players who cannot attend, to be replaced with players whom have declared their availability and desire to play in the JB Cup.

For qualification purposes,(suggestions only):
- A minimum number of DG events in the previous calendar year.
- The player must have played in a division where the Open teepads are used,(in order to be fairly ranked).
- Assuming four teams with eight players each, their ranking must be in the top....50 players?
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Postby C.T.Pete » Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:58 am

another important thing to remember is that the JB cup is not a BCDSS initiative. It doesn't have to be 'inclusive' along the lines of the BCDSS mandate. It is what it is.
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Postby chaddydaddy » Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:45 am

You could always do something like a numbered bag-tag system... create 10 or 12 tags per team and have "challenge matches" throughout the Summer (keep track of wins/losses and match results) to see who can hang on to the tags.

Then you know definitively who EARNS the spots as well as what is the pecking order.
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Postby matt » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:16 pm

For the sake of simplicity and being realistic about a process that will actually work, I think the system for picking team members should remain the respective captain's decisions. Choosing of the captain should be agreed upon by the club/team-region from which players are being selected. This is generally how it works now and I don't see any problems with it.

As for the teams playing in the event, I think if there is an existing team (not a hypothetical one) that approaches the JB Cup organizer(s) with a request to compete in the next event, they should be given the opportunity to get into the tournament by playing the last place team of the previous year. Perhaps this could be decided on the Friday beforehand with one round of singles.

Rather than tighten the rules surrounding clubs and who can play for who, I think it would be best to relax them. To me this is the simplest solution for eliminating controversy. If the goal of the JB Cup is to bring BC's most skilled players together in creating the highest degree of competition, then the development of the strongest possible teams should be encouraged.

As already emphasized, the JB Cup is a skill-based competition, meaning, like it or not, not everyone is included. Virtually every other event in BC is inclusive (e.g. Duck Golf). These inclusive events are your opportunity to demonstrate your skills to your regional JB Cup team captain. Your successes will not go unnoticed.
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Postby Nev_Star » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:37 pm

Just symantics but this isnt brining the best of BC just the best of the lower mainland..
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Postby chaddydaddy » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:03 pm

I thought the lower mainland did a great job of rounding up the best available (healthy, interested) players... (with the exception of a couple players who maybe didn't feel they played enough events through the year or who felt conflicted about picking a 'home' course to play out of)

Wondering what it was like on the Island? Lots of great players to draw from... were there many you had to turn away who were good enough to be on the team? Seriously, I'm sure you could easily field 2 teams.

But really... for all that's been said (by me, and all on the forum here), this tournament is AWESOME just the way it is! The ability to re-rank players between matches can obviously be frustrating at times but it serves to keep all the teams point totals real close right up until the end... definitely adds a dimension of competitiveness and pressure to each match!
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Postby matt » Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:18 am

This year the Islands team had a bit of a hard time getting a full team together. It seems a lot of the players from previous years weren't playing much if at all anymore (e.g. Chad, Shad, Joah, Nick Longo...). Virtually no one is playing in Victoria since the removal of UVic (poopy park) and the loss of the night course there.
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JB Cup Challenge Rules

Postby hank » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:24 pm

For your information, here are the JB cup 4th place team challenge rules:

Starting in 2012 new teams can enter a competition against the 4th place team from the previous year’s JBC competition. There can be more than one new team in this competition. Only the winner will get a spot in the upcoming JBC. The competition will consist of the same format as the first day of the actual JBC (i.e., best shot pairs, alternate shot pairs, and singles). The competition must occur before August 1st or at least two weeks before the upcoming JBC, whichever is earlier. The previous year's 4th place team will choose the time and location (must be reasonable - Hank and Jas will mediate). All challenges must be through an email to hank (email address on main bcdss disc golf page) before May 1st. Email must include team name and team roster.

If the challenged team is hosting the upcoming JB cup (i.e., choosing the course) and they lose the challenge, the host team will not fall to the team that wins the challenge, it will go to the next host team in the rotation. Rotation order is currently T-Town, Islands, Mundy, QE.
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Re: JB Cup

Postby coldazice » Sun May 12, 2013 2:48 pm

Kudos to Hank for this alteration of JB Cup to allow a still competitive tournament to be held to challenge the last place team of previous years event. I look personally I have watched the last 7 Ryder cups, and supported the teams involved with both my Interest In this game, as well their participation. With an opportunity to challenge a great team in ttown, I was excited and determined to put together a team which could compete to its own highest level, against a proven team. My frustration comes when I hear comments, we are wasting the "time" of certain players by even holding such an event? Where is the fun in this sport gone?
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Re: JB Cup

Postby hank » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:15 am

The 2013 JB Cup on August 24-25 is hosted by T-Town. The venue is Nanaimo. The teams are as follows:

Mundy
=============
Neville Collett
Steve Crichton
Dennis Dreger
Darryl Dyson
Chris "Goat" Gauthier
Chad Harris
Dan Laitsch
Mike "Maj" Majuri
Jay "JP" Peters
Dave Ross
Craig Sheather

QE
=============
Jas Bul
Mike McMillan
Eric Vachon
Dave Stropky
Pete Jersak
Ryan Hebert
Ed Fogarty
James Macinnes
Mike Graff
Jesse Thompson
Shawn Luco

T-Town
=============
Dave Brown (Captain)
Glen Oliverio
Hector Diakow
Wes McIntosh
Kris Klimko
John Silvester
Eric Olsen
Geoff Dyck
Craig "Speedy" Whitley

Islands
=============
Matt MacDonald (Captain)
John Anthony (Assistant Captain)
Miguel Alvarado
Matt Dixon
Tim Forrest
George White
Alex Fraser
Glen Whitlock
John Keifer
Nick Longo
Eric Dusch
Mike McGregor
Braeden Simmonds
Steve Mawdsley
Joah Choplain
Ted Hickford
Jay Samms
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Re: JB Cup

Postby hank » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:03 pm

Below are the teams for the JB Cup Challenge match for 2014. The tournament will be a Jericho Hill on May 10th. Rules/Format are the same as last year (see previous post). Changes to the format are pending (currently under review) but due to short notice, those changes will be applied in 2015.

Estimated players meeting 8:30am.

Robert Burnaby
Ryan Hammerquist (Captain)
Derek Wintermans
Malcom Stooke
Matt Lum
Kuba Staszczak
Johnny Mac
Bill Anderson
Rob Eichendorf
Robin Eimers
Kingsley Ralling
Leuch Giannini
Darin Mickelson
Dave Cowley
Eric Stephenson
Joey Wilson
Chad Harris
Mark Hammerquist

Langley
Kevin Brown (Captain)
Chris Colivas
Derek Field
Justin Galye
Lee Gifford
Chris Hartmann
Dylan Okymom
Aaron Peterson
Jim Popil
Mike Ramanauskas
Jay Regitnig
Eric Vachon

Mundy B
Josh Piche (Captain)
Mike Majurie
Dax Braby
Justin Dasilva
Chris Campbell
Kevin Baxter
Garrett Anstey
Jeff Schmitlutz
Darrell White

QE
Peter Jersak (Captain)
Jesse Thompson
Mike Graff
Jas Bul
Brendan Armstrong
Mike McMillions
Coert Grobelar
Ed Fogarty
Shawn Luco
Dave Stropky
Levi Buckingham
James MacInnes
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Re: JB Cup

Postby chaddydaddy » Sat May 03, 2014 9:52 pm

Love that this event has expanded - it seems to be allowing more players to find a natural fit with their *current* home clubs...

Looking forward to next years challenge - it seems we need a way to accommodate more teams to be able to get involved (ie if the Island team is split into 2 teams, and the interior puts together a challenge team, and one other team steps up).

Was thinking it could work to add another tier...

So in other words:
- the JB Cup would be considered the A-tier (and the last place team from the previous year would be exposed in a B-tier challenge match)
- the current JB Challenge match would be the B-tier (and the last place team in this year's challenge would be exposed if other teams wanted to challenge in a C-tier next year)
- a C-tier would be created (as according to demand), where up to 3 teams could challenge the last place finisher in the Challenge match

The C-tier event would be held first, and the winner would get into the B-tier event to compete... and the winner of the B-tier would get into the JB Cup.

So theoretically, a team could go from C-tier right to the JB Cup in the same year (if the stars aligned just perfectly and they were deserving of it)... and any other team could only fall one tier in a given year.

This would allow for a seamless expansion each year according to actual demand, and make for some intense competition.
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Re: JB Cup

Postby chaddydaddy » Mon May 12, 2014 12:40 pm

Thanks for another great event! I could tell by who all showed up during the day to both watch and play that this is an event lots of people care about.

And I get that it's Hank & Jas's baby, so feel free to make whatever changes you like.

That being said, I'm a fan of one change and would challenge the aim of the second one...

Changes:
1. For this year's Challenge (& upcoming JB Cup), teams no longer select which team their chosen players will face... They simply get listed as 1, 2, 3, 4 (etc) and matches are determined randomly based on a formula to even out the number of times each team is faced overall.

This has the effect of preventing 3 teams from ganging up on one team with all those teams best players (convenient for Q that this rule was changed, but overall I think it serves to even the playing field so the truly best team wins - and doesn't get stomped by "tactics").

2. For next year's JB Challenge match, Hank has said that it will be a 2-day event, where the challengers all square off on Saturday and then the winner (of up to 4 teams) would compete against the JB team "on the chopping block" all day Sunday.

Also, since there are only 4 challenge team spots available, Hank has said that Burnaby, Langley, and MundyB, all have a spot for next year's Challenge, so one new team can join... BUT if 2 new teams join then MundyB (having finished last place in this year's Challenge) would get bumped out completely... And if 3 new teams join, then Langley gets bumped out as well. As the second place finisher, only Burnaby is guaranteed a spot.

This means that the team on the chopping block gets to be fully rested and taking on a tired team (3 Jericho rounds and then another 3 the next day?? C'mon). This is no punishment whatsoever for the 4th place team, and I can tell you right now that it's no motivation to win the Challenge... If the top Challenge team was rested it would at least be fair (like if there was a week between matches for instance). Let's face it, the Challenge teams are already likely weaker than any if the 4 JB Teams, but do you think anyone stands a legitimate chance in that planned scenario??

If you just want the 4 original teams in the JB just say so and drop the shenanigans... Don't give the other teams false hope
or else we will stop caring & you'll be back to just 4 teams again.

Also - who's to say the new teams would be better than MundyB or Langley? You'd bounce those 2 teams without letting play determine who's better? (Even though Mundy supported this event both years - and had a strong showing of club support as
well??) this makes no sense to me

Please don't take my thoughts as an attack - I want this event to continue thriving :) this is meant as healthy debate.
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Re: JB Cup

Postby Peter » Mon May 12, 2014 9:22 pm

This means that the team on the chopping block gets to be fully rested and taking on a tired team (3 Jericho rounds and then another 3 the next day?? C'mon). This is no punishment whatsoever for the 4th place team, and I can tell you right now that it's no motivation to win the Challenge... If the top Challenge team was rested it would at least be fair (like if there was a week between matches for instance). Let's face it, the Challenge teams are already likely weaker than any if the 4 JB Teams, but do you think anyone stands a legitimate chance in that planned scenario??

Point taken Chad...

Do you have a solution to this problem other than a two weekend scenario? Don't forget that there are teams that will be required to travel to compete in the challenge. Having a two weekend event would present barriers to these clubs, (both financial and logistical), that may serve to inhibit their ability to participate. What if the Islands becomes the Challenge team? Will we see four teams challenge for their spot knowing that they will potentially need to travel to the Islands...twice?

If you just want the 4 original teams in the JB just say so and drop the shenanigans... Don't give the other teams false hope or else we will stop caring & you'll be back to just 4 teams again.

I feel confident in stating that the aim of the rule changes proposed are not meant to exclude other clubs...rather they are an attempt to deal with the explosion of interest in this event. A healthy debate with constructive ideas/solutions proposed are welcome.
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